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“I think the Indonesians are sophisticated enough,” she says, “not to have this humanitarian effort wipe out every other thing that is causing distress with U.S. government policies.”
Jones was expelled from Indonesia in June 2004, reportedly because officials objected to her research on separatists and terrorists. Now based in Singapore, she was interviewed on January 7, 2005, by Bernard Gwertzman, consulting editor for cfr.org.
The world’s attention has been focused for days on the Indonesian province of Aceh, which bore the brunt of the tsunami. It’s also the center of a years-long separatist rebellion. The tsunami is thought to have killed nearly 100,000 there. What has been the impact of this devastation on the people of Indonesia?
There are a couple of ways to discuss the disaster’s impact. One is that Aceh is now in the consciousness of every single Indonesian citizen, and there has been a vast outpouring of compassion. For the last couple of years, while Aceh was under martial law, most Indonesians conveniently dismissed it from their minds and said, “Okay, these are separatists, let the army do what it wants.”
Now there is going to be a lot more internal domestic attention to Aceh in a way that probably is healthy. But it could also generate some worry on the part of conservative nationalists in Indonesia- including some conservative Muslim groups- that all of this international presence could lead to political pressure to negotiate with people who shouldn’t be negotiated with.
Aceh is an area of Islamic separatists?
No. The movement is a separatist rebellion in a part of the country that is very strongly Islamic, but it is not an Islamic movement, and the main driving force is not religion. It is to separate Aceh from Indonesia and get independence for a part of Indonesia that has considered itself ethnically, politically, and historically distinct for the last several centuries.
What makes the Acehnese different?
They speak a separate language. They have their own very strong culture; they were the part of the Dutch East Indies that fought hardest against the Dutch [colonizers], and in Aceh, the resistance lasted longer than anywhere else in the country. They call themselves the “Veranda of Mecca,” and traditionally look across the Straits of Malacca to Malaysia and have a greater affinity there and to the Middle East than they do to Jakarta.
What is their ethnicity?
Essentially Malay.
Have the people of Aceh wanted a separate state?
During the war against the Dutch in the aftermath of World War II, the Acehnese fought on the side of Sukarno [subsequently Indonesia’s first president, who ruled from 1945 to 1967] and the nationalists. They wanted to be rid of the Dutch as well. But, beginning in the early 1950s, they began a rebellion, because they wanted special status within the new, independent state of Indonesia. They never really got what they were fighting for. The rebellion was defeated in 1963, but there has been a tradition ever since of grievances on the part of the Acehnese against the central government. This particular round of the rebellion started in 1976 with GAM, the acronym in Indonesian for the Free Aceh movement.
You are saying that now there is great sympathy for these people elsewhere in Indonesia?
Yes. How could there not be, given what has happened? And also, because of the way that civil servants are moved around, and because of the presence of the army, and for a lot of other reasons, there were a lot of non-Acehnese who were also victims. The army lost hundreds, the police have over 1,000 still missing- a number of these were Acehnese- and there were also people with business interests.
The provincial capital, Banda Aceh, was washed away. Is it the most well-off part of the area?
Capitals are always better off than hinterlands and, yes, there was a lot of money in Banda Aceh. The industrial site where Mobil Oil has its plant and so on is down the east coast and, while it suffered some damage, it wasn’t nearly as bad as on the north and west coasts.
Is coverage of the damage and relief efforts being televised in Indonesia? What kind of impact have American troops had?
The American troops are on television virtually every night in Jakarta on the news. It is fair to say that in Aceh, there is nothing but overwhelming gratitude. In most of Indonesia there is also gratitude, because it is clearly the case that U.S. helicopters were getting into places the government had not touched and probably couldn’t have touched without that kind of air support.
But there is also suspicion among some in the military that the United States and Australia must have ulterior motives. Those motives have been suggested as everything from wanting to get a foothold in Indonesia, to doing secret surveying of the coast, to wanting to demonstrate their power, to wanting to Christianize Indonesia and convert the Muslims in Aceh.
Because the United States was the major supporter of peace talks that took place between 2000 and December 2002, some important segments of the army have believed that the United States would like to weaken Indonesia by supporting separatists. It is paranoid. There is not an iota of truth to it. But because Aceh and Papua, at either end of the archipelago, are seen as the real threats to Indonesian security- not terrorism, and not whatever the rest of the world thinks it is- the Indonesian government is particularly sensitive about foreign presence and foreign activities there.
That makes the American, Australian, Singaporean, and other groups’ involvement in the aid effort all the more striking, both because it is happening at all and because it is a source of great nervousness on the part of the military.
There are reports that some of the U.S. aid groups in Indonesia have removed American flags from their facilities and vehicles. Is there fear that some terrorist groups might be present?
I think there are a couple of things involved. There is an issue of not wanting to offend the Indonesians, that somehow the relief effort encroaches on Indonesian sovereignty. This is a very touchy issue.
There may be fear of terrorist groups operating. But, in fact, Aceh has been particularly immune to terrorist blandishments. Al Qaeda tried to get GAM involved, or at least made some move into Aceh in 1998. But it was clear that GAM had no interest in an international jihad. [GAM members] are extremely pro-American because they want American support. The meetings broke up with both sides saying, “Thanks, but no thanks.”
There is one other thing, though. In the last few days, there has been a move to Aceh of the MMI [Majelis Mujahadeen Indonesia], which is Abu Bakar Bashir’s political organization. Bashir is on trial for his alleged role in the bombing of a J.W. Marriott hotel in Jakarta in 2003 that led to many deaths. The MMI is an above-ground political organization that wants to establish Islamic law, and there have been members of Jemaah Islamiyah [JI], a terrorist group, in MMI. But MMI, as far as we know, has not been engaged in any kind of violent action, even though there is some overlap [between it and JI]. In fact, Bashir is JI’s spiritual head. MMI members have gone up to Aceh in the last couple of days and, if they stay very long, they are likely to try to raise anti-American sentiment. I don’t think it will work in Aceh. The Acehnese are not going to take very kindly to these kinds of groups. But they [MMI members] are up there and that may be a reason why some American flags were taken down.
Secretary of State Colin Powell, while visiting Aceh, talked about lifting the U.S. ban on the sale of military spare parts to Indonesia, because the parts were needed to get C-130 transport planes flying again. Is there room here for improvement in official U.S.-Indonesian relations?
There is room for improvement in U.S.-Indonesian military relations. Relations between the two governments are not bad. But there are two problems. One is that there is a deep anti-American feeling in the population at large that has intensified unimaginably since the Bush administration came into office. It partly has to do with the war in Iraq; it has to do with the war on terror, and how it is being pursued; it has to do with visa and immigration regulations and lots of other things.
The United States is not liked and not respected any longer, with the situation aggravated by the revelations about [abuse of detainees in Iraq’s] Abu Ghraib [prison] and so on. Powell and other people have said very openly that this kind of humanitarian effort could substantially improve the U.S. image in Indonesia more generally. I think that is true up to a point, and it is true temporarily, but the factors causing that negative image have not gone away. I think the Indonesians are sophisticated enough not to have this humanitarian effort wipe out every other thing that is causing distress with U.S. government policies.
On a government-to-government level, the relationship has been quite good. On the military side, there have been problems since 1991 because of [Indonesia’s suppression of the independence movement in] East Timor. That’s why there has been a ban on spare parts and everything else. Most of that has been in place since 1999. The ban on the training of Indonesian military officers has been in effect since early 1992. The ban on spare parts and equipment stems from 1999. Just as the ban was being lifted by Congress, there was a killing of American teachers in Papua in August 2002, and the freeze went back into place.
I don’t think there will be much of a problem for spare parts for C-130s. I do think that, while there is a chance for the military-to-military link to be re-established, a lot depends on how the Indonesian army behaves. If it goes back to its old ways in the course of this relief effort, and if there is not a lifting of the state of emergency that has been in place since May 2003, and if there is not a cease-fire that takes place with the guerrillas, I think it will be very hard for Congress to lift the ban. A spokesman for Senator Patrick Leahy’s (D-Vt.) office was quoted as saying that it is one thing for the army to be playing a role in the humanitarian relief effort, but it is not going to mean a complete restoration of the relationship.
Is the Indonesian press giving the tsunami story big play?
It is overwhelming. Every day in the Indonesian papers, there is a special section on what they call the “National Catastrophe.” Every paper is printing information on where people can donate money, where people can call if they want to volunteer. The media coverage is extraordinary. At the same time, it is interesting to see where the most and best organized local efforts have come from. And far and away, the best organized and most effective group of volunteers up there is the more than a thousand members of the small Muslim political party called PKS (Islamic Justice and Prosperity Party). Everyone says that they were in there first; they are well organized; they are disciplined; and they are getting a lot of good accomplished.
What is significant about this party?
This party came from nowhere to get 10 percent of the seats in the national parliament in last April’s elections. It is a party that sees itself in some ways as the Indonesian version of the Muslim Brotherhood [an Islamist group founded in Egypt].
They are not terrorists?
They are not terrorists. It is a party that would like to see Islamic law established, but it is a nonviolent party willing to work through the political system. It has gotten support partly because of its grassroots organizing effort, but also because it is seen as completely clean and incorruptible, which is pretty much a phenomenon in Indonesia.
Indonesia has had a new president since last fall, Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono. How is his government’s reaction to the disaster seen?
The Indonesian press has not been too critical, partly because of the overwhelming nature of what has happened. But the press has been regularly reporting on chaos at the airports, the inability to get aid out to the people who most need it, confusion of assignments, the overlap in bureaucratic delays, and so on.
Has the president been to Aceh?
Yes. He went out there, and was clearly very moved by what he saw there. The person who has really taken charge of the relief effort is the vice president, Jusuf Kalla.
What about in a place like Singapore, where you are currently living? Is it a big story there?
Yes. It is huge. The Singaporeans have sent huge numbers of doctors. Singaporean doctors and military people dealing with logistics are playing a very important role. Singapore is now offering its air bases as a staging area for the relief effort.
